Wildfire has always been here, and humans have always had a relationship with it. These days, we have recognized that our relationship to fire has been less than ideal. Wildfire smoke has consumed our summers, wildfire threat has persisted in our minds, and there seems to be no end in sight. So, how do we begin to change our relationship to fire? How do we go from surviving it, to thriving with it? The knowledge exists, the solutions are there, how do we make it happen? Transformational change is hard. ResourcesLori DanielsSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes23.23 - 23.34: “Trees are really amazing; trees will colonize till they establish and grow and persist in any space where the seedling can arrive and be given an opportunity to survive.”TakeawaysThe more awareness, the better (4.53)Lori highlights the importance of fire safety awareness and training, since “almost half of the fires in Canada are started by people”. The Centre for Wildfire Coexistence (10.34)The Centre for Wildfire Coexistence at the Faculty of Forestry at the University of British Columbia looks at the recovery of ecosystems and communities in BC.What tree rings tell us (12.54)Lori’s research takes place at the Tree Ring Lab at UBC, processing samples from the forest to understand how historical fire regimes functioned across a range of ecosystems. Historical fires (15.45)Tree rings provide some quantitative metrics that demonstrate Indigenous knowledge of the fire intervals and their impacts on the ecosystems where the fires burned. Viewing fire as bad (20.03)Lori points out that European settlers made it illegal for Indigenous people to practice cultural burning, creating “an abrupt change in the way that fire functioned in the ecosystem”.The fire deficit (21.49)Lori shares that cultural burning maintains heterogeneity and variability of forests and diversity of ecosystems essential to maintaining biodiversity in BC. The fire suppression paradox (26.21) Reintroducing fire as proactive mitigation is important in forests where the fire regime has been disrupted and fuel has accumulated, putting communities and other values in danger. Wildfire behaviour (27.58)Lori lists three critical factors that control wildfire behaviour and effects - the interactions between weather and topography, the intensity of the fires, and the fuels. A challenging situation (38.13)Concerns about smoke stopped prescribed burns that provided the benefits of surface fires, leading to the accumulation of fuel and high-intensity fires.Local capacity building (54.47)Lori’s advice is to empower BC’s 154 municipalities, and 204 Indigenous communities through funding and education to execute their wildfire resilience plans.Mitigation is like insurance (1.03.04)Climate change dictates more such fires in the future, predicting rising costs of firefighting and medicines for the vulnerable, and damage to homes, farmlands, water supply and habitats.Cognitive dissonance (1.19.34)Lori hopes that the provincial legislature will understand the importance of contributing funds in order to make changes in policies and practices that will govern forest management. Be fire smart (1.26.21)Investing in fire-proofing one’s home and understanding how fuel treatments and prescribed burning can help are steps to take toward changing fire behaviour to reduce wildfire risk. Win-win situation (1.33.26) Some First Nations use the biomass they remove from the forests around their community to create heat energy that supports their medical center and offices.

Nature knows best…right? So, our forest management strategies should try to emulate nature? That’s what we used to think. Unfortunately, our ideas on how to emulate natural disturbance rarely result in something that acts like a natural disturbance. Bottom line, we are not fire, and we want different things from fire, so we need to not act like fire. We have had some good ideas, and our minds were in the right place, but it is now time to shake things up. Let’s put that big head of ours to use and come up with something that would make mother nature proud. ResourcesEllen MacdonaldSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes43.23 - 43.32: “The more complex and variable and flexible you make regulations, the more difficult it is to go and see if people are following them or not.” TakeawaysSustainable forest management (10.46)Ellen concurs with the widely held definition of sustainable forest management as “managing our forests in a way that sustains the full diversity of values they have”. This differs from the old definition of sustained yield forestry which focused on sustaining timber production. Emulation of natural disturbances (15.31)Ellen talks about the origin of sustainable forest management in the 1980s-90s motivated by a desire to sustain a full range of values and inspired by natural disturbance patterns. Ellen believes the emulation of natural disturbances is one tool to achieve ecosystem management goals.Nature knows best (19.23)Ellen points out that using natural forest ecology to inform forest management goes back to the 1920s-30s when nature was used as an inspiration to understand how forests functioned and regenerated after disturbances depending on the species there to inform silviculture practices. Identifying the real objective (28.12)The important differentiator of natural disturbance, whether fire, insects or major disturbances is that “they don’t kill everything”. They create opportunities for trees to regenerate and create structural diversity in the forest. The focus should be on forest management plans purposefully emulating the effects of natural disturbance instead of the patterns of natural disturbance.Challenges in sustainable forest management (43.00)Ellen finds that the complexity of implementing regulations related to sustainable forest management is a challenge. There are also worries that some may take advantage of the flexibilities in the regulation or make mistakes in interpreting how natural disturbance effects should be emulated since it is not a well-tested hypothesis. Additionally, forests take a long time to grow, so it will be a slow process. The old and the new (51.17)Ellen uses the example of deadwood to explain how the understanding of different components of a forest evolves over time. Different technologies today can help us monitor, document and inventory forest biodiversity which allows for more opportunities to manage forests better. Always learning (1.07.08) Ellen advises learning from Indigenous peoples’ history with landscape management and the tools they use. She hopes “forest management can be viewed like science - as a never-ending set of questions rather than a series of disconnected truths”.If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.

Image curtesy of National Geographic and Eye of Science through Sue GraystonIn forest management, we spend a lot of time on the things we can see; charismatic megafauna, trees, pests and plants. But what about the things we can’t see? What if I told you there was an entirely unexplored ecosystem below our feet? One that has more biodiversity than we can imagine. This community is responsible for half of the carbon sequestration of the forest, and the maintenance of ecosystem function for above ground species. This life beneath our feet is as much responsible for the forests we love as the biggest trees and the cutest caribou. Let’s show it some love. ResourcesContinuous root forestry—Living roots sustain the belowground ecosystem and soil carbon in managed forestsSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.TakeawaysNew frontiers (10.17)Cindy highlights that they found archaea populations in forest soil, a different type of organism which can also carry out nitrification of the soil.Unseen but important (14.41)Cindy shares that it is difficult to advocate for the importance and inclusion in forest management of organisms that can’t be seen. A whole world in a spoon of soil (19.52)Next-generation sequencing techniques help us understand the workings of organisms in the soil.Microbial processes (24.51)Sue describes the labelling techniques through which they label trees with heavy isotopes of carbon sources similar to the carbon from trees, allowing them to identify groups of organisms that are important in using that carbon. Saving the world (30.20)Sue spotlights the fact that many organisms spend all or some of their lives in the soil creating a link between organisms above and below. Forest soil microbes remove methane and nitrous oxide from the atmosphere and clean water waste. Knowledge is power (34.41)Cindy believes that understanding the workings of soil organisms is better than using chemicals for biological controls. Microbes process organic matter and help lock it into the soil. How forest harvest affects microbial communities (48.40) Sue found that dispersed retention in clear cuts has a better function in retaining microbial diversity and its functioning across the cut block. Cindy adds that mycorrhizal fungi communities depend on the dynamic flux created by trees. Below-ground diversity leads to a resilient ecosystem (56.32)Every plant species has its temperature range of comfort which is being affected due to climate change. Recent wildfires have also been devastating for the soil biome. Inoculant seed zones (1.06.59)Sue and Cindy talk about how unaffected forests can act as seed zones after a wildfire. Nitrogen fixers prevent the soil from declining if there is a wildfire again. What’s below is as important as what’s above ground (1.22.33)Cindy offers a different way of thinking about forest management - that sites can not only be saved but also improved using the understanding of below-ground ecosystems. She laments the lack of care with which soil is currently viewed. Stand and landscape level diversity (1.36.21)When there is a diversity of tree and plant species, there will also be below-ground diversity. Built into that maintenance of stand productivity is using improved genetic stocks that are programmed to grow faster as well as silviculture techniques.Ongoing monitoring (1.41.45)Cindy talks about the need to monitor soil biodiversity and measure key processes and the amount of soil organic matter, especially mineral-associated organic matter. She reinforces the need to develop resilient forests, and the first step would be to update forestry policies.

What stands in the way of the future of sustainable forest management? There are many answers to this question, but the deepest answer may be colonialism. The very structure of our governing bodies and institutions have made it very difficult to try new things. It is possible that our colonial system of organization and decision making now stands in the way of progress. Organizations have to fight against the system to make new decisions, and move in new directions. The first thing we have to do is recognize the problem. ResourcesIra SutherlandDynamics in the landscape ecology of institutionsSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes1.27.55 - 1.28.02: “Can we really transform these systems into something generally sustainable if we cannot transform ourselves first?” TakeawaysSustainability (10.00)Ira defines sustainability as a dynamic process of constant learning. Institutions are meant to be constantly monitoring changes in the environment and adapting and evolving in response. Institutions (18.51)Institutional processes are the activities conducted on the land base which provide feedback for monitoring to the institutions.Power (21.55)The arrival of the provincial colonial government became the main decision-making authority for all lands in BC. From the 1970s to the 1990s, environmental NGOs began having some say with international boycotts against BC timber products. Since the 1970s, First Nations ancestral rights have also been recognized through case law in BC.Wise use (24.10)In BC, many areas were protected as forests and wasteful early timber harvesting practices were modified to prevent wildfires and ensure more resources for future generations. Sustained yield (28.17)Sustained yield forest management in 1948 formalized the goals BC had for its forests, and it sought to have a continuous or even perpetually increasing supply of timber. Intention vs. outcome (30.15)Ira highlights that early institutional functions in BC did not consider Indigenous land rights and the needs of the Indigenous people and it led to the 1990s pine needle epidemic and fires since. The forest practices code (34.25)The forest practices code was introduced in 1995. 11 different values have to be managed alongside timber, such as biodiversity. Timber bias (36.56)Ira laments that even though new policies have been created, they are layered on top of the old ones, but it doesn’t remove the emphasis on sustained yield in forest management in BC. Change (44.50)BC has restricted converting forest to regulated stands to 15% of the land, elevated First Nations decision-makers in the area and created new types of conservation zones. Social values (59.40)Ira’s research paper measures biophysical structures within the forest and uses that as a proxy to estimate the capacity of a given forest and provide multiple ecosystem services. Multi-dimensional approach (1.03.15)Ira opines that better data on multiple ecosystem services and a structured decision-making process need to inform forest management practices. Polycentric forest governance (1.11.11)Managing the forest locally is the top recommendation in Ira’s paper to effectively monitor changes, understand local values and make management decisions that reflect those. Forest management recommendations (1.14.30)The second recommendation in Ira’s paper is to maintain and restore complex landscapes, with heterogeneity at the stand and landscape scale for ecologically resilient landscapes. The third recommendation is to help institutions adapt through reflective processes.

As modern culture expands, wilderness dwindles in its wake. It has become more challenging to create empathy for land through real experience. Luckily, there are people like Jim Lane. Jim teaches an Ecology and Conservation course for High School students. His approach gets students out in the bush to experience nature first hand. They learn about scientific observation, interconnectedness, ecology, history and colonialism all through observing nature. All this without leaving school property. ResourcesJim LaneAldo Leopold’s Land EthicSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes15.29 - 15.37: “A land ethic changes the role of a human from a conqueror to just a plain ordinary citizen of the biotic community.”TakeawaysAuthentic learning (04.54)Jim always wanted to be a high school science teacher, influenced by his teachers. As a child, he loved being outside and has turned his passion for the outdoors into a profession. Field ecology and conservation (12.40)Jim’s students are tasked with designing a way to measure the forest. The empathy for the forest is developed as a product of that process. He teaches Aldo Leopold’s Land Ethic to help students see themselves as part of the natural world. A ‘sit spot’ exercise involves authentic journaling of natural observations.Sit Spot (20.19)In interviewing former students, Jim learned that the ‘sit spot’ exercises had helped students overcome stress and gave them a space to process their feelings and find themselves, alongside discovering the dynamics of the natural world. Building empathy (30.14)Jim reflects that hope and trust are important for students to feel engaged in a course such as this. He introduces them to different birds and their lifestyles, makes them taste the bark of aspen, or challenges them to write down observations of the forest from memory. “Those experiences where you are pushed beyond that comfort zone is where you start to build… empathy”, he notes.“Knowing that there’re things you don’t know” (43.35)Jim observes that land and most of the natural world don’t move in a timeframe that humans understand. He shows his students how the knowledge of just one tree can “not only unlock the history of the land that it grew on but also that history of the people on the land”. Respecting the forest (1.05.27)Jim believes that seeing the forest over a long period helps develop respect and appreciation for it, knowing it takes very long to replant it. Forests and fires (1.08.15)Jim’s advice to other teachers who are looking to encourage authentic learning is to allow students to have authentic experiences with the forest. He laments how fires have made it dangerous and difficult to be outdoors. He narrates how a researcher interviewed Indigenous Elders on managing a forest using good fire, but that advice has not been followed. The destruction from wildfires has also damaged the cultural activities of the Indigenous. If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.

Why is tree equity important? They are just trees, right? So what? They don’t impact health, wealth, quality of life? They just look good!Well, in fact trees do ALL of these things. They drastically reduce deadly heatwaves, reduce breathing problems, shelter your home from the elements, reduce drainage costs, increase your mood, and save you money in all kinds of other ways. Now a new tool shows us which communities are receiving these benefits and which are not. Urban communities in particular are dangerously low on tree cover. We can help deliver basic human rights to those that need it just by planting trees. ResourcesAmerican ForestsSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes10.45 - 10.54: “Trees are important for people and… they are [an] essential part of our climate justice conversations and our health justice conversations.” TakeawaysData can be democratized (03.47)Benita explains that American Forests is focusing on ensuring tree equity in urban areas. so that all communities can benefit from greenery.  Tree equity (07.19)Julia points out that the Tree Equity Score tool makes it visually apparent using maps that the lack of greenery in poorer communities is a national issue.Social and climate injustices (11.50)Neighbourhoods with the fewest residents of colour tend to have 3 times more tree canopy per person and are 3 degrees cooler. Areas with the lowest poverty rates have double the tree canopy per person and are 6 degrees cooler than areas with the highest poverty rates.Trees are the jack of all trades (14.29)Julia highlights that trees provide many different benefits to communities, including heat regulation, absorption of pollution and mental health. Baseline tree cover (22.18)Benita celebrates the 1.5 billion dollars of funding American Forests has unlocked in partnership with US Forests towards protection and maintenance of trees in urban communities to ensure tree equity. Broadening horizons (28.29)Benita talks about how a big part of their work is to involve local communities in the conversation on their local cultural context and needs. Planting and maintaining trees also creates employment in the communities. A human-centered approach to filling gaps in the urban forest (32.58)Julia explains that the Tree Equity Score is a free tool American Forests created as a prioritization system, which provides a score from 1 to 100 based on a combined measure of tree canopy and social and climate health.  Breaking down the Tree Equity Score (35.15)Julia delineates the different parts of the Tree Equity Score - the tree canopy goal and the priority measure. Data is powerful to help change minds (40.58)Benita recalls that developing a rigorous tool was critical to move the cause of tree equity forward at a local governance level, just as it was to make the tool free and open. A holistic solution (47.31)The user guide accompanying the Tree Equity Score tool describes how to calculate the benefits of reaching different equity score targets. Coming together for tree equity (54.30)American Forests recently launched the Tree Equity Alliance to bring other national organizations together on the issues of urban greening and environmental justice. A sense of urgency (1.00.14)Benita expresses a sense of urgency to advance tree equity with local leaders and decision makers since “some communities are much more likely to be sick or die than other communities”.

How we value forests is changing, and our management strategy is often playing catch up. As a result, forest management in British Columbia is undergoing a paradigm shift. It is a values shift. A more holistic approach to managing forests that accounts for more than just the sustainability of trees. Old Growth was the lighting rod, ecosystem health is the goal. Garry Merkel came on to give us the run down how things area changing and why. ResourcesA New Future For Old Forests: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/strategic-review-20200430.pdf  Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act (DRIPA): https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/indigenous-people/new-relationship/united-nations-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoplesSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes08.32 - 08.55: “The forest is not the ecosystem; the forest is the product of the ecosystem. The ecosystem is the whole environment - all the species together, the relationships between those, the different water cycles, carbon cycles, sun, etc… that all result in conditions that can foster certain kinds of forests.” TakeawaysA change is needed (04.48)Garry shares that people are unhappy with the way forests are managed unsustainably and with values compromised. Trees are not commodities (08.24)Garry explains that a forest that is burnt or blows over comes back as the same forest in an intact ecosystem. Co Governance (11.45)Garry and Al recommended that the BC Government build a strategy collaboratively with the Indigenous community to prioritise ecosystem health with consistent policies in a 3 zone framework. Preserving old growth (15.39)Garry suggests changing silviculture practices from clear cut to more natural disturbance type to maintain ecosystems and increase the targets for old growth. A big societal shift (20.50)Garry believes the shift to protecting old growth requires three big shifts - shifting to joint governance with Indigenous communities, shifting to inclusive, multi-sectoral regional based planning and decision making and shifting our entire mental framework from focusing on individual resources to focusing on ecosystems. Sustainability is the journey (26.20)Garry thinks this shift will be more sustainable even as it changes our economic relationships with the land. “Life is what happens when you are planning what to do” (39.57)Garry speaks about the challenges of implementing changes with COVID and the varied 200+ First Nations in BC. He is working on implementing the Forest Landscape Plan in BC. Preserving forest values (45.15)Garry laments that there are processes currently taking place that haven’t received consent from First Nations and that not all percentages of old growth protection have been met. “Moving at the speed of understanding and trust” (1.00.46)Garry observes that many industries are realizing the importance of a holistic approach to land management. Science and wisdom (1.10.12)Garry suggests each individual begin their own learning journey, communicate their vision with their local representatives and learn from Indigenous wisdom about land management.The paradigm shift (1.15.47)Garry explains, “A paradigm shift is simply a significant change in thought”, and action follows a paradigm shift. Living in harmony with nature (1.21.48)Garry shares how different countries have adopted different land management practices and how they are transforming their approaches.

What better way to learn about Old Growth and Big Trees then to talk to a guy who thinks about nothing else!? Greg Herringer spends his work time finding big trees, talking about big trees and creating programs to protect big trees. He also spends his free time going on expeditions to find more big trees. This guy is THE Big Tree Guy! We try to answer the question, how do we protect big trees in a world that need wood fiber? Greg sees a path forward.ResourcesGreg HerringerOld Growth DeferralsSpecial Tree Protection RegulationBig Tree RegistryQuotes33.20 - 33.25: “Too many people confuse hearing and listening as the same thing and they are entirely different.”TakeawaysPersonal and professional passions (04.24)Greg is a Forest Technologist at British Columbia Timber Sales. He is passionate about preserving large tree ecosystems and was part of the 80s-90s revolution to protect old growth on Vancouver Island.Tree tools (08.22)Greg explains the tools used to extract a sample from the trunk of the tree and extrapolate the findings to learn more about the age of the tree based on the visible growth rings.Planting by the rules (11.26)Greg had a decade-long career as a tree planter during which he began developing a curiosity for big trees. He feels positive about the special tree protection regulation the government has passed along with the BC old growth program to protect large trees from being harvested.A sustainable and holistic approach (16.15)Based on his work with many universities, Greg believes a fundamental shift is coming in how harvesting forests is viewed by the new generation of forest professionals, including forging partnerships with First Nations.A century is a blip for a tree, but a lifespan for humans (19.28)Greg shares people's reactions on his tours of old-growth forests. He encourages people to slow down and “experience the old-growth forest as it should be”, including exploring forest bathing.The human side of forestry (31.20)Developing personal relations with others is the most important skill in forestry, according to Greg. Understanding what the public wants the forests to be will help guide forest restoration practices for the future.“The forest isn’t static” (35.19)Greg discusses the terms of the special tree protection regulation, sharing that the required buffer area around a tree was a compromise between the industry and the ENGOs. He lists examples of some old-growth trees that are still evolving.Wanted dead or alive (39.35)Greg points out that the tree protection regulation does not differentiate between live and dead trees because of the value of standing dead trees to wildlife habitat.What nature really is (42.43)Greg recounts his trip to Vernon Bay to discover giant trees between 800 and 2200 years old.When we all come together (01.07.30)BC Timber Sales has developed a voluntary program in conjunction with Western Forest Products to target the most valuable commercial species for protection.Stand up for what you believe in (1.17.42)By following the special tree protection regulations, Greg feels good about acting in line with his morals and ethics.Land back (1.34.10)A large portion of the land will be returned to the stewardship of the First Nations to manage according to their traditions and intergenerational expertise.

Who doesn’t love Big Old Trees!? “You would have to be some kind of monster!” That pretty much sums up the episode. Author Amanda Lewis shares her journey around her book Tracking Giants-Big Trees, Tiny Triumphs, and Misadventures in the Forest. Amanda brought a breath of fresh air into the way I think about big trees. Her fun nature and transparent writing style make for a great dialogue and an even better read!ResourcesTracking Giants by Amanda LewisSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes48.03 - 48.07: “That’s the thing about trees - once you stop looking for them, they start to reveal themselves.” TakeawaysWhen the forest calls (05.09)Amanda went to the University of British Columbia in Vancouver but had to move to Toronto to pursue a career in publishing. She returned 8.5 years later to the forests of her childhood, burnt out from a difficult career and shaken from the big life change. We are the champions (08.05)Amanda‘s friend introduced her to a book called Big Lonely Doug, which spoke about a Douglas fir tree included on the BC Big Tree Registry. She decided to start a blog called Tracking Giants which would record her travels to all the champion trees. The most difficult and the most rewarding (11.10)The BC Big Tree Registry, created by Randy Stoltmann, is an online database of native trees where they are assigned tree scores based on their dimensions. Big tree registries originated in Maryland to catalogue what was left of the big trees after logging.Obelisk in the desert (19.53)Amanda points out that trees change across a landscape and a digitized registry allows for updates to reflect the changing state of trees. She muses that the reason big trees draw people in is that “they represent that deeper time and that slower way of being”. Missing the forest for the trees (28.30)Amanda likes to look at metrics of appreciating trees that are beyond numbers. Since Indigenous peoples knew of the trees since time immemorial, younger tree trackers are choosing not to name them.Approaches to conservation (36.02)Amanda highlights that Indigenous peoples refer to trees as family members. She laments that polarized perspectives on working in the forest are untrue and that they show that you can both love and harvest trees.“To find the tree, you must become the tree” (45.38)Amanda shares about the opportunity for anyone to be a ‘community scientist’ in what is a very democratic registry by nominating any big tree they come across. What a tree can be (57.56)With time, trees can become big and rare and it is a “tragedy of forestry on the coast” that many trees have been logged, leaving no chance of an old-growth forest.An epidemic of loneliness and technology (1.07.00)Amanda invites listeners to think about the decisions that can be made in the present to be able to look back without regret in the future.Children of the same soil (1.14.20)Amanda feels centered thinking of herself as part of the same world as trees with rich stories, and believes there is hope to rewrite the narratives of our relationships with them.

I never thought I would have to talk about war as a forest disturbance. I was not prepared, nor did I have the experience or knowledge to provide any relevant feedback. This discussion really opened my eyes to the complexity and devastating nature of war as a disturbance. How even when the war is over the consequences will last generations. The ecology will be forever shifted, and the dangers of unexploded ordinances will haunt the people of Ukraine for decades to come. ResourcesBrian’s Yale TalkQuotes51.17 - 51.29: “The river makes forests possible; the river is a great place to set up a defensive line so… forests get disproportionately affected by the war because they are near the river.” TakeawaysWar and Fire (08.13)Brian informs that it is the Donbas region in Ukraine which is being “systematically” destroyed due to the war. However, forest fires have also caused damage in the past there, with a third of the pine forests being destroyed in 2020. A large country with fascinating forests (12.24)Some Ukrainian forests are free of Russian invaders but contaminated by unexploded ordinances, which complicates firefighting in the area. He believes Ukraine needs resources and support to tackle this problem. Natural and economic trauma (21.04)Brian describes how increased fires due to the war have transformed and fragmented Ukraine’s landscape. He narrates the history of colonization across this landscape and the impacts it had on the steppes and pine forests.Reforesting pines and afforesting sandy steppes (27.01)Brian narrates how pine was used to restore the landscapes under different regimes in Ukraine but that the Russian invasion is destroying the forests. He discusses the complications in fire management due to the varied thinning practices in the past. Fire in the Forest (36.17)Brian highlights the lack of trust towards foresters in Ukraine and Russia. Although there are long-standing regulations, the invasions have damaged the forests and made it a militarized zone. Restoring forests (42.37)Brian notes that even though much of the forest has burned, some has been salvaged by intuitive demining and intelligent resource management. However, commercial forest management has become extremely difficult due to shrapnel in logs. Firefighting in war-torn landscapes (50.10)Brian believes Ukraine would need many firefighting tanks to demine the UXO-contaminated landscape in phases.“Triage starts with forests in communities “ (58.10)Brian deliberates what forest restoration can look like in Ukraine.The way ahead (1.13.37)Brian believes that the way forward must be Ukraine-driven.How you can help (1.23.12)If you would like to contribute to Ukrainian foresters, you can visit Brian’s GoFundMe or reach out to him on Facebook. Brain encourages listeners to contribute to grassroots organizations in Ukraine since larger humanitarian organizations already receive significant funding.

Do we have a moral obligation to Nature? Most people extend moral standing to their family, friends, town, country, maybe as far as human species. What about beyond that? Animals? Sure, they have a nervous system and they can be cute. What about things that are nothing like us? Trees? Fungi?… Rocks? What universal force obliges us to act respectfully toward them? Does ethics even apply to rocks? Or was this just the tired ramblings of an overthinker? Listen and see…ResourcesNathan KowalskySponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes29.09 - 29.23: “That’s often how the respect ethic has accounted for larger ecosystemic problems, is by saying that there are other human beings that are affected.” TakeawaysOut of doors (05.44)Nathan explains that many environmental writers prefer to say ‘out of doors’ instead of outdoors, to step away from the connotations of masculinity and related activities that the outdoors are usually associated with. Depth and profundity (13.55)Nathan defines philosophy as “the search for the meaning of things”. Philosophy helps us understand if things are meaningful and why, by posing helpful questions about meaning. It offers a rigorous process to get closer to answers.“Part of being a philosopher is being frustrated” (16.23)Nathan finds that philosophy attempts to answer questions that humans have always wondered about, and the process of finding the answers repeats over and over. The answers one comes across could be what work for them, but may not be the final answer. Moral frameworks (23.19)Morality, Nathan says, is about “trying to discover the answer to questions of human behaviour,” and is used interchangeably with ethics in philosophy. Harm minimization (utilitarianism) and respect (deontology) are two frameworks of ethics. If you believe you can or Kant (27.24)Immanuel Kant, the classical deontologist, believed that only rational beings could be the recipients of moral regard because they could reciprocate respect, which Nathan believes is a deeply anthropocentric position to take. How useful is utilitarianism? (31.49)Nathan talks about utilitarian philosopher Peter Singer’s theory that our circle of consideration must evolve to include non-human animals, but he also defines the limits of that circle. “If you are not having anxiety when you are philosophizing, you are not doing it right” (37.53)Nathan finds a sense of meaning in a sense of belonging in nature in a way that is embedded into what already exists. His identity comes from nature rather than in opposition to it. To him, respecting nature and its components is important. Mindfulness (53.12)Nathan believes that a person’s sense of connection with and belonging to nature may impact the outcomes of activities done in nature, but it will surely help them discover things about themselves. Thinking is piety (1.05.03)Nathan believes that the way in which we should relate to nature is to fit into a larger framework, so we can see ourselves as connected to nature, instead of as the center of the universe. Re-indigenizing the planet in the Anthropocene (1.20.07)Nathan laments the atrocities that were committed in the conquest of the land that has now come to be known as Canada. However, he finds hope in nature, that it is stronger than a culture can be.

How important are forests? How important is the wood we harvest from forests? The answer to both questions is - crucially important! We can imagine the role forests play in ecological function of the globe, but have you ever really considered where we would be without wood? The truth is we are dependent on both, and that is not going to change. In the re-release of his 1989 book “A Forest Journey” John Perlin explores the “Role of trees in the face of civilization.”ResourcesForest Journey: The Story Of Wood And Civilization SponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes16.08 - 16.17: “Wood being the primary fuel enabled our species to survive.”TakeawaysJohn’s books (05.41)John’s first book delineates the history of solar energy to generate heat, which inspired him to study the importance of wood in doing so. His second book discusses how “we have misunderstood the underpinning of all cultures” based on the material that was deemed important in that age.The living planet (18.20)Archaeopteris, the first true tree, ensured the Darwinian evolution of terrestrial life. John’s book talks about how 130 million years later, an excess of carbon dioxide due to deforestation nearly caused all large life to become extinct.  Sustaining civilizations (24.55)Humans’ use of wood for fire, tools and cooking, allowed them to congregate for the development of language and storytelling. Fire also helped in hunting and made nighttime safe, while aiding in developing settlements and metallurgy-based technologies. Trees influence history (32.07)Greek mythology is based on fire, and the presence of wood defined the Greek empire. Masting timber was the first cause of conflict in the American colonies. Differences also developed over the use of wood between Indigenous Americans and settlers. The defeat of the British also occurred because of the lack of masting timber. We are living in a material world (49.08)John highlights that planks under roads are wooden, and ceramic needs fire to be created. Wood has been used to produce fire for countless applications in metallurgy, and there used to be entire economies based on wood. Trees protect (1.00.03)John explains how biodiversity is a natural barrier to diseases and removing forests removes predators of disease-causing organisms, which can lead to an epidemic or pandemic. On the flip side, what may be perceived as directly harming trees may in fact be harming another species that fertilizes the soil. “There’s nothing new under the sun” (1.11.07)John is constantly inspired to gather knowledge, collect ideas and accumulate information and share it through his books and lectures. He talks about opposing schools of thought in forestry and the anthropomorphization of and ageism against trees, causing misinformation to live in the world. The web of life (1.18.51)John was fascinated to learn that roots do most of the carbon sequestration by creating carbonates which go all the way down to the oceans, where they become locked in the limestone and help animals like mollusks and gastropods build their shells. Facing forward (1.21.52)John has faced flak for expressing his opinion on how all humans bear the responsibility for resource depletion and turning “the world into a wasteland”. His book explains how landscapes have been completely transformed over time due to deforestation.

Trees communicating? Protecting their offspring? Sending warning signals? Even helping “competing” species? These are some of the incredible things we have heard about the “Wood Wide Web”. But, is it true? Or has the story got ahead of the science? A team of mycorrhizal researchers has discovered some painful truths about these fungal connections we have all come to be fascinated with. Justine Karst breaks down the myths and misconceptions about Common Mycorrhizal Networks (CMN), and the pain it caused her to do so. The first 50min is the science, the last 50min is the story behind it. ResourcesJustine’s Lab Justine’s paperSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes58.47 - 59.00: “If it makes you really mad, or if it makes you really happy, pause.” TakeawaysThe wood wide web (09.17)Justine talks about how the belowground transfer of carbon in the field is not conclusively proven to occur through a mycorrhizal network, what some call the ‘wood wide web’. A common mycorrhizal network is formed when roots of two different plants are physically connected by fungal tissue. Exploring functions (15.22)Only two studies in the world have done high-resolution sampling showing with high certainty that the same fungus links two roots of different trees. Mycorrhizal fungi are essential in forests, but the function of common mycorrhizal networks is inconclusive.Debunking myths (27.23)The paper that Justine, Melanie and Jason worked on evaluated some of the widely held assumptions about common mycorrhizal networks - that they are widespread in forests, their benefits to trees, and the communication of warning signals between trees through the networks. Not enough studies have been done to conclusively support these ideas, and the methods used are difficult to control for confounding effects. The truth (43.40)Justine, Melanie and Jason could not find any peer-reviewed, published field studies testing the claim that trees recognize their kin and send warning signals to them. One graduate thesis even proved those claims wrong. When they looked at how scientists interpret these claims, they found that nearly 50% of the papers today citing original studies made unsupported statements.  “We’re looking to nature for how society should behave or act” (55.50)While Justine wants to see people rethink their connections with nature, she does not want science to be distorted towards that end. Because of the misinformation about common mycorrhizal networks, the difference between possibility and established fact has blurred. “I’d rather know the truth than believe in a fairytale” (1.06.00)Justine acknowledges that her study may have burst the bubble for many but believes that the truth is helpful to all scientists. However, the lack of conclusive evidence on mycorrhizal common networks, in her opinion, does not devalue the conversations around species interactions. Critically engaging with feedback (1.13.12)Justine, Melanie and Jason’s study had three scientists sign the review, and their associating their reputation with the study was reassuring to her. The trio revised the manuscript based on their feedback and ensured it was thorough.

Against all odds, one species is making a comeback! Whitebark Pine! At the top of the mountain, where few other trees even try to survive, this species thrives. It is a keystone species that has developed a particularly peculiar way of spreading its young about the mountain side. Co-evolution anyone? If you like old trees, cool birds, species killing fungi, and most importantly, a story of hope, than this is the podcast for you!ResourcesPlanting the Future: Saving whitebark and limber pineWhitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation of CanadaSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes1.12.12 - 1.12.20: “One of the most important things and hopeful things you can do is plant a tree under whose shade you won’t sit.”TakeawaysTelltale signs of whitebark pine (9.42)Contrary to their name, whitebark pine barks are not white, but silver, and their thick canopy makes them look like broccoli tops. Their needles occur in bunches of five instead of two. Mutualism (15.52)The Clark’s Nutcracker opens the cones of the whitebark pine and stays healthy on its high-fat seeds. It has evolved a pouch under its tongue to store up to 90 seeds of the tree. Keystone and pioneering species (23.02)Brenda finds that the whitebark pine is important for many species of birds and small mammals. Prescribed fires could be beneficial to their survival.Whitebark pine proliferation (28.22)Amelie describes the Clark’s Nutcracker’s specialized beak, which can open the hard egg-shaped cones of the whitebark pine. The bird’s range is 12-28 km. “A species that gives back more to the ecosystem than it takes” (33.28)Brenda expects the subalpine ecosystem to be different with the loss of whitebark pine, a community on which many species rely. Threats to whitebark pine (41.18)Blister rust, the mountain pine beetle beetle, fire suppression and climate change are all threats to whitebark pine. 100 Tree Survey (50.59)Brenda’s role in Parks Canada is to help whitebark pine recover and survive. They visit 100 large-diameter trees in the stand in mast years and assess them for blister rust resistance. Developing infection resistance (56.50)Brenda’s team extracts the seeds from infection-resistant whitebark pine cones and sends them to nurseries to grow. Two years later, they take the seedlings back to the park to grow. Protecting whitebark pine from beetles (1.03.17)Brenda’s team applies 2 packets to the valuable whitebark pines every spring that send chemical messages to mountain pine beetles, which save 60% of the trees. “Everybody’s favourite day is planting day” (1.09.27)Brenda shares that there are 140 whitebark pines in Jasper National Park that they believe are resistant. It’s important to plant them at fair distances in microsites for protection. A video speaks a million words (1.14.29)Amelie is proud of the video that seven mountain parks in Canada came together to create to raise awareness of the whitebark conversation program and rust resistance. Do your part (1.19.49)Brenda is encouraged by how the video has inspired whitebark pine restoration efforts in Alberta and BC. Brenda believes that visiting the beautiful whitebark pine forests and supporting the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation of Canada are two ways in which each person can be a part of the conservation efforts.

Imagine a forest full of hardwoods (leafy trees). Then imagine towering sentinel Pines standing a full tree length above the rest. Now imagine a full forest of these Pines. That is what the North woods of eastern North America use to look like. Today, the Eastern White Pine is scarcely a remnant of what it use to be. The reason? It built America. A foundational tree in every sense of the word. White Pine is a keystone species, an ecological driver and one of the tallest, straightest, and fattest trees in the North woods. John Pastor came on the podcast to tell the human and ecological history of this species, and it truly opened my eyes.ResourcesWhite Pine by John PastorSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes28.25 - 28.30: “More revenue was generated by harvesting white pine than all the gold in California.” TakeawaysA foundational species (09.08)White pine is the largest tree in the Northwoods whose large biomass enables it to capture a lot of the sun’s energy that froze into the food web. It also allows it to control the cycling of nutrients through the food web by the uptake of nutrients and then shedding the needles. Cultural significance of white pine (12.39)John shares that Native Americans, particularly the Iroquois and the Algonquins (the Anishinabe) revered white pine. The Iroquois associate the 5 needle pines with the 5 original nations of the Iroquois Confederacy. High grading or forestry? (16.24)John acknowledges that logging helped people build homes, workplaces and bridges without importing. White pine is big and gave a lot of clear lumber, which could be cut into large sizes for large construction. “The tree that made North America” (28.31)New England colonists were not happy to share the lumber they harvested with England. The parliament passed laws marking white pines larger than 24” as reserved for the King, which resulted in a riot. What Nature means (38.53)“Europeans looked at natural resources as a commodity they needed to build civilization; First Nations looked at themselves as a part of nature”, John comments. They can choose not to share their stories (46.22)John is hopeful about the growing collaboration between foresters, ecologists and land managers and Indigenous Peoples. He cautions any white listeners not to demand Indigenous peoples share their stories. Magical mycorrhizae (59.48)John discusses mycorrhizae, the symbiotic relationships between plant roots and fungi. Mycorrhizae have helped restore white pine and protect forest cover. Fire protects forests (1.07.31)Thinning of young pines helped preserve the forest since the larger, older pines were more fire-tolerant due to their thick corky bark. This also helped people shift their perspective of fire. Ecological forestry (1.18.31)John agrees with the “save all the parts” philosophy but also sees the role timber plays in maintaining the sustainability of human populations. Many foresters today are mindful that their role is not to supply timber but to preserve the planet for future generations. An experiment in forest management (1.27.28)John believes that only successful forests which produce high-quality lumber are able to afford ecological silvicultural management of the forest. He discusses the difficulties in maintaining the different types of forests. Looking to the future (1.32.43)John summarizes that throughout history, each way of looking at forests has built upon and been added to the previous. Some views are coming into conflict now, but science will always take precedence when making decisions about the future of the forest.

Fire is many things; wild, controlled, rejuvenating, destructive, cultural, ecological, and most obviously, dangerous. Science writer Jacob Margolis lives in California where fire has become a constant worry. As a result, he plunged headfirst into the world of fire and came out with one of the best podcast series on fire that is available today. The Big Burn starts from the beginning and allows listeners to make sense of fire and to help them better understand, and therefore better cope with, the reality of fire. ResourcesThe Big Burn podcastJacob MargolisSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes28.40 - 28.50: “We clearly need a complete overhaul of how we handle fire and… forested ecosystems, especially here in the State of California.”TakeawaysKnowledge is power (05.08)Jacob loves being a science journalist because he gets to dive deep into things that interest him. Since 2017, he has covered fire to help people understand it and make it “a little less scary”. Playing with fire (08.48)Before starting his podcast, The Big Burn, Jacob felt scared and upset with fires. He has now spent time weatherizing his home by buying air purifiers. The podcast helps him understand how to approach the problem of fire.Fire season (13.46)Jacob states that the fire season in California comes around late August, and stays till early December. The Santa Ana winds start in September - October, and they wait till the winds come to an end in April or they get rain. Tell me a story (16.21)Jacob’s journey of creating a podcast on fire was to find an angle that would appeal to the listeners, going from the threat of the loss of the giant sequoias to finding a middle ground with people who don’t like trees.“Fire is not binary” (21.30)The episode on doing a prescribed burn was the easiest for Jacob to write because of the action and how relatable it was due to the explanations in the episode. Fire exclusion and suppression (23.56)Jacob highlights that tree ring records show that fuel buildup in the forests began in the mid-1800s. This is when the gold rush took place, which devastated Indigenous communities who had been actively managing the landscape. How wildfires change ecosystems (26.05)With climate change came high-intensity fires. The chaparral ecosystem of California used to recover with longer fire intervals, but with more frequent fires, the ecosystem was replaced by grass.Indigenous land management (29.44)Jacob explains that Native Americans had a different perspective on and relationship with the land. He believes present-day land use and management policies are worth examining against the Indigenous framework. Managing prescribed fires (36.15)Jacob laments that there isn’t a robust enough system to handle a prescribed fire going awry, on the rare occasion that it does. There also isn’t much incentive for firefighters to be around prescribed burns. The good fire angle (49.48)By introducing the high stakes of not doing prescribed burning, you can get buy-in and start to shift the conversation. If people could attend a prescribed burn, it would make it more relatable.  Change is needed (1.00.40)Jacob is of the opinion that “how we treat our world is not working, especially when it comes to climate change”.

The old ways are changing. Technology moves fast, and with it our methods and strategies for managing the landscape. Artificial Intelligence, or machine learning, presents an incredible opportunity in forest management. Better and faster data means more time spent on other values. Values like biodiversity, clean water, carbon storage and recreation. Today we find out how far we have come and what lies ahead! Hopefully not Skynet…ResourcesCollective CrunchSponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.TakeawaysForest inventories (13.22)Christof notes that forest inventories came into being after the overuse of forest resources in the industrial revolution and the realization that those resources are not unlimited. Country-wide inventories began only 100 years ago, and he claims Nordic and central European countries were the forerunners in this matter. Forestry is an area where AI actually works (19.07)Christof points out that LIDAR is done in 5-10 year cycles since acquiring data is expensive. They enrich data using their software to fill the gaps, making it cheaper. Rolf shares an example of how data can help track biodiversity loss to keep corporates accountable for their processes and offer transparency of ethics to consumers. Data-driven baselining (27.52)Rolf discusses one of their services, data-driven baselining for project management and bringing data into greenwashing conversations. Christof highlights that AI helps with squeezing the most out of the available data in a project. Rolf recognizes the benefits of this for a large landmass managed by a single entity. The data you need (34.08)Christof lists the various tools to acquire data at various levels of granularity and mentions that their customer segment usually looks for the medium scale of data. He talks about how modern AI systems are based on extracting and learning from existing data, the relationships between the data and what you want to predict. Limits (39.24)Rolf finds that the kind of data available can be limiting while Christof says ground measurements can be a limiting factor. Where LIDAR exists, technology can be used to augment the data between flights.Valid and reliable (51.19)Rolf talks about how data can provide a verifiable and scientific way to manage forests, and they are trying to convince the industry to become data-driven for scale. Their company can provide baseline analysis to help investors who are looking to invest in carbon credits. The North American story (1.00.01)Rolf foresees the carbon price continuing to go up in North America, which may incentivize forest owners to leave forests unharvested. Christof has observed change management initiatives in government forest organizations to embrace the new ways of managing forests.  The data-driven future (1.10.08)Christof believes more and higher quality data is a matter of time. They are seeing exponential growth in data, and his dream is to have a digital equivalent of the world’s forest cover, which would expand the possibilities of forest planning and management for the most economically optimal operations. Rolf adds that higher-resolution data is needed for biodiversity initiatives, but that we are on our way there.

Public forests hold a lot of value for people. Clean water, fresh air, organic food, rich ecosystems, recreation opportunities, and timber for our homes. Now, it is forest professionals job to manage the public resource for these values. Only, how do we know what the public values? Have we asked? This episode is about social license, and the idea of a forest profession that is forever moving forward to better protect the public interest.ResourcesAssociation of Alberta Forest Management Professionals (AAFMP)Rocky Mountain Goat AllianceThe Myth of the Omnipotent ForesterHas the Myth of the Omnipotent Forester Become the Reality of the Impotent Forester?SponsorsWest FraserGreenLink Forestry Inc.Quotes33.06 - 33.11: “Our inherent nature is to read and seek information that supports our bias.” TakeawaysFor the people (13.00)Carla defines the role of the regulator as protecting the public interest by ensuring foresters are qualified and pursuing continuing competence. In forestry, forest professionals are responsible to apply the values of the public in their work. She highlights the importance of ongoing public consultation, communication and relationship building. The forestry industry (23.40)Carla talks about how the industry is different today, with increased interaction with the public and the earning of social licences since most of what forest professionals do has a significant public impact. She encourages those looking to enter the industry to make the most of their time at school, selecting electives wisely and conducting informational interviews with professionals in the field to shine a light on their blind spots in the profession. She also celebrates reading about different perspectives in the field to broaden one’s horizons and ignite creativity.“One of the core foundations of ethics is continuing competence” (36.10)Carla laments that forestry has been accused of being stuck to old ways, but she finds foresters to be open and receptive. It is essential to be abreast with up-to-date science and apply it to one’s work, as due diligence. In the Friday notices she sends to all AAFMP members, she includes links to new information and Matt’s podcast. Lifelong learning (55.33)The continuing competence program is defined by the AAFMP council and is regularly reviewed. The intent is to move away from hours-based programs to competence profiles, which can lead to career growth. Carla gives the example of the Forest Technologist Standards they developed, which include soft sciences and an Indigenous component. Being open (1.02.23)Carla believes curiosity forms a large part of successful competency training. When one approaches Indigenous consultation from a place of inquiry, it prevents missing the big pieces of the conversation. She shares how AAFMP revised their exam to better help entrants in the field. “Public interest is a moving target” (1.12.00)Carla believes in encouraging people to be a part of the process of this self-regulated profession and to volunteer for committees that help make it what it is. She explains how her work involves balancing the interests of the bulk of the people with protecting minorities and being fair to the fringes of the profession.

Good Fire podcast is back! This is a bonus episode where we get to listen to the very knowledgeable, very passionate, and very engaged Bhiamie Williamson. We talk about cultural fire in Australia and the difference between western and Indigenous perspectives on fire, and our relationship to it. Episode highlightIn this podcast, Bhiamie Williamson discusses the connection of Indigenous peoples to the land, and how cultural burning is a way to preserve the environment and cultural heritage. ResourcesStrength from perpetual grief: how Aboriginal people experience the bushfire crisisRoyal Commission into National Natural Disaster ArrangementsSponsorsThe Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire ScienceSupport from:●       California Indian Water Commission●       Firesticks Alliance Indigenous CorporationQuotes12.00 - 12.10: “There is so much trauma in our communities, people have never had the opportunity, I feel, to kind of pick themselves up and dust themselves off from colonization.”TakeawaysFire is a shared resource (5.58)As an Aboriginal child growing up in Australia surrounded by his culture, Bhiamie “always had a love for country”. He studied environmental and political sciences at university, and discovered the benefits of cultural burning. Land is at the center of healing (11.26)Bhiamie points out that fire plays an important role in Indigenous healing practices. Cultural burning can also prevent wildfires, thus preventing the trauma of losing ancestral lands.Sharing the load (19.04)Bhiamie has written an article that has inspired governments and agencies to provide trauma-informed support to Aboriginal peoples after natural disasters.The land is a living museum (24.42)Bhiamie informs that Aboriginal peoples have connections to land, and the animals, trees, stones, and petroglyphs are all part of the cultural heritage. “The best form of protecting is prevention” (30.22)Bhiamie recommends engaging Indigenous peoples in emergency management and prevention conversations which can help in high-pressure conditions. “Think ahead and be happy to be unsettled” (38.37)Bhiamie comments on the impacts of colonization and “centuries of oppression”, and the need to overturn it. True reconciliation (46.59)Bhiamie expresses his preference to have Indigenous peoples design their own emergency management programs across different lands in Australia.Children of the future (59.19)A majority of the Aboriginal population is young, which brings up the need to provide educational and developmental support along with family and social support. “It’s just not good enough to ignore us anymore” (1.02.37)Bhiamie observes that even when Indigenous peoples are invited to share their opinion, they are marginalized, with tokenized opportunities that contain the impact they can have. Indigenizing masculinity (1.08.41)Bhiamie’s Ph.D. research is on Indigenous men and masculinity, exploring masculinity from an Indigenous perspective. “You can call that decolonization, I just call that common sense” (1.14.13)In Bhiamie’s opinion, the first step to decolonization is to employ Indigenous peoples in senior roles. Land justice and repossession by Indigenous peoples, as well as cultural burning to manage climate change, are the next steps. You can get in touch with the hosts of this podcast via email: amy.christianson@canada.ca and yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.